BuddyPress

@johnjamesjacoby @DJPaul @r-a-y @boonebgorges

Nice work on the new BP.org templates… they’re really cool. Unfortunately, they also make it impossible to find the BP-Media support forum.

This is actually a serious problem.

BP-Media is the 4th most popular forum on BP.org, outranking HALF the forums listed on the new navigation menu. We have more users than the “Localization”, “Miscellaneous”, “Gallery”, “Requests & Feedback”, and even the “3rd Party Components & Plugins” forum. BP-Media is also the 5th most active forum on the site, with nearly 500 different threads and thousands of replies.

We understand your decision to get rid of a big list filled with hundreds of abandoned plugin forums …but please understand …by getting rid of that list and not providing an alternative way for users to navigate to BP-Media’s forum, you’re effectively killing one of the most active forums on buddypress.org.

The easiest way to fix this is to simply add BP-Media to the hard-coded navigation menu alongside the other core forums. Yes we’re a plugin. Considering the facts above, can you think of a compelling counterargument?

If people have to use Google to find BP-Media’s support forum, there’s not much point in hosting it on buddypress.org. Sites like Facebook, Google+, Atlassian, and Github have integration API’s, push updates, and a much better user experience …starting with 1/2 second page load times.

The reason we use buddypress.org is because it used to make it easy for new users to find our support forum.

Thanks!

^F^

http://buddypress.org/community/groups/bp-album/forum/ ?

Yes, obviously.

But the only way to find the forum now is when somebody gives that link to a user. Previously, there was a list of forums on the site, and BP-Media’s support forum was on that list.

^F^

Well this site sucks for using it as a plugins support forum when you are just a user and have no way to edit or delete or close topics in YOUR OWN PLUGINS SUPPORT FORUM. This is why I closed my plugin forums here and created a site to handle support.

I don’t understand. There was never a list of preferred plugin forums before, and I don’t see a compelling reason for there to be now. No third party plugin deserves front and center on a site that’s dedicated to supporting itself.

If your forum has more traffic, it isn’t because it’s on the first page of anything; it’s because you’re using it for its intended purpose and have paid employees to staff it. Even if I’m wrong and those aren’t valid enough reasons, core BuddyPress components don’t even have their own dedicated forums; why would BP-Media take any precedence over BuddyPress’s own core?

@modemlooper – If you weren’t an admin in your own group, you could have asked any one of us whom you talk to daily to fix that for you.

@foxly – Are you talking about http://buddypress.org/community/groups/ ? If so, the page is still there but hidden from te UI for now. Your plugin still shows up in /extend/plugins/ just like everyone else’s does; what more do you expect to happen?

Overall, the general responses from you both are to not let any good deed go unpunished. Anything that changes and you’re there to criticize why it ‘SUCKS’ or some other thing is exponentially better. There’s a line where feedback becomes toxic, and you’re both walking it.

JJJ you’re being too sensitize to the word “sucks”. I mean it sucks for ME.

Yeah I was an admin in my plugin groups but 50% of support was posted in the general forums with now way for me to move or merge or close/resolve. This caused me to answer the same silly questions over and over because a user would go to that plugins forum and not find answer and instead of posting it would get posted in the third party general forums.

My reaction is to Foxly stating that these forums are not so good for a serious support forum. Trolling through a bunch of garbage to get to serious issues is a waste of time that could be spent on development.

Not a problem anymore, I’ve moved support and I’m using bbpress. Guess I’ll quit posting here then.

In one sentence I’m being sensitive, in the next you’re never posting here again. Hm.

The issues you bring up now aren’t with the site, they are with trying to commingle your support with BuddyPress.org support. Your post above contradicts your earlier post, and I’m confused at what exactly you think we could do differently to improve your experience.

Don’t think I’m immune to the basis of the challenges you’re talking about. Between the .org sites, Twitter, Facebook, Skype, IRC, and email, everyone wants help from every angle up to and including my personal Facebook account. It’s up to you to set appropriate limits and filter support where you want it most.

If the BuddyPress Group Forum didn’t work for you, that doesn’t mean the whole site sucks. Even if it does, what do you suggest we do to make it better? What iterations do you recommend we make to make it the best site we can? It’s our site, we’re free to experiment.

@johnjamesjacoby

There’s a line where feedback becomes toxic, and you’re both walking it.

Everything I posted was fact. I stated a problem, suggested a course of action, and explained the possible consequences if the problem was not corrected. Where was I being toxic?

The original forums page effectively worked as a “preferred forums” list. It ordered forums by last posted message and number of users. Because the BP-Media forum is (was) extremely active and has a huge number of users, it was always at the top of the list.

Recent changes to the BP site hid that page from the UI. Users can still, in theory, access plugin forums from the plugins list, but the list is ordered by last SVN commit date. That’s useless for someone trying to browse to a specific forum. They’d have to navigate 30 screens deep to find BP-Media.

Although *you* may think the core buddypress forums are more important than plugin forums, users on buddypress.org do not agree with you. And they’ve voted with their posts. That’s why, until you hard-coded the “core” forums into your template and hid the “plugin” forums, *over half* of the core forums were displaced from the list by very popular plugins like BP-Media and CubePoints integration.

Although these changes might improve *your* user experience by making it easy to navigate to the forums *you* visit most frequently, they harm the user experience for a large number of visitors to the site. You need to step outside your bubble and look at the bigger picture.

Buddypress.org was “yours to experiment on” until you let 100,000 users move-in and build a community. Now you have a kingdom. And if you fail to keep it running smoothly, you’ll have a rebellion.

^F^

At the end of the day, this is a support site for BuddyPress. Us opening up groups for third-party plugin support was an experiment of its own, and a successful one I think. We put your plugin and support information in one convenient Group as opposed to mixing all of them together with tags like WordPress.org does.

That said, there is nothing anyone can ever do here that will give it more emphasis than BuddyPress itself. I actually think its great if you outgrow your space here, as it means you’re doing well and being successful, fostering an essential part of the BuddyPress ecosystem.

I like the idea of eventually having a popular plugin page. If that happens, clearly BP Media stands out. I think the best way to keep things running smoothly currently is to focus on BuddyPress core development and support, and iterate on the third-party plugin experience for what it is.

"Your post above contradicts your earlier post, and I’m confused at what exactly you think we could do differently to improve your experience."

In my first post I responded to @Foxly so no wonder you are taking it the wrong as it won’t make sense to you. I was saying to another third party dev that USING this site for personal support forum is not the best, not that this site sucks.

You’re right, this is the support site for BP not third party plugins. I thought using the group forums here would be a good way to keep things organized and do a little general support for BuddyPress while I was here but I need something to better manage things.

Keep calm and carry on.

Around and around… You specifically said this site sucks to use as a support forum. I asked what you think we can do improve it. You tell me I’m misunderstanding but then confirm my understanding.

I’m calm as a cucumber, but something productive doesn’t happen here, I’ll be calmly closing this topic.

@johnjamesjacoby

As leader of this project, you have a difficult role. Lots of people have complaints. Many have merit and many don’t. Whether they have merit or not, every complaint is *real* to the complainer.

You have put a huge part of your life into BuddyPress, so its hard not to take complaints personally. At the same time, you have people who develop plugins which they have invested a huge part of their life into, so its hard for them not to take it personally when they feel their complaints are discounted.

This project is a community of human beings all working their asses off. As leader of the community you must be the most tempered, the most humble, the most gracious. I feel that sometimes you react in a bit of a combative way, instead of trying to diffuse things and let a healthy debate ensue. This leads to lots of frustration in the people which the project depends on for its life.

I am thankful for all of the hard work you put into the project, and without you the project would not be where it is today. Don’t tear it all down by alienating people who have made large (or small for that matter) contributions over the past years.

I’ve read and reread everyone’s opinions, and I appreciate the feedback.