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dutchmall.nl

  • Avatar of superbloggernl
    superbloggernl
    Participant

    @superbloggernl

    http://dutchmall.nl is an improved “community” site built on the experiences at http://superblogger.nl .

    Dutchmall is mainly focused on becoming a digital version of a stripmall where potential storeowners get their blog and store free of charge (yes we know it’s bad for business to give things away for free).

    When the stripmall owners grow out of their little store and are proven succesful they can upgrade to the big mall with more visitors, more space, more of everything …..

    Both sites are a work in progress, always running latest versions and making heavy use of premium plugins, which amazingly haven’t conflicted once yet.

    critical comments, tips, or just plain feedback are more than welcome.

Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • Avatar of Bowe
    Bowe
    Participant

    @bowromir

    I have a critical comment for you.. You are reselling premium themes from WPMUDev premium on your own site.. I would call that stealing my friend…http://dutchmall.nl/buddypressthemas/2009/12/03/buddypress-community-thema-premium/

    Basically you are reselling all themes and plugins from other people for your own benefit.. I am not sure if this is illegal (I think so, but I don’t know much about the GPL license), but I presume you know this is wrong ?

    I’m all for a honest exchange of views and discussion on this forum, but anyone who participates in this thread need to be careful that the discussion doesn’t turn nasty.

    Avatar of superbloggernl
    superbloggernl
    Participant

    @superbloggernl

    Bowe (and others !) , I am sorry that you shout out blurps before actually reading up on things, but I understand completely as I also do not always read every text file in every archive.

    However, if you accuse someone of stealing you may want to do some homework first !

    The items we are “selling” are adopted by us to work for the dutch market where needed. Furthermore we do not charge for the themes and plugins themselves as is clearly stated on the site. There is nothing wrong with charging a fee for our services to maintain the site and provide support, per the licenses as included with the files. All these licenses are intact and included with our distributions. We do not imply anywhere that the files are ours and in fact there is reference to wpmudev right on our site.Furthermore we re-distribute under the same licenses and as such you have the same rights as we do.

    If we are in any form acting under false assumptions we will stand corrected and act accordingly, but for your pleasure we included an exerpt of the license as included with the files. If you still decide that we are “stealing” then keep your post as is, but if this reply has taught you something about GPL licenses we would appreciate you revoking your allegations.

    When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not

    price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you

    have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for

    this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it

    if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it

    in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.

    To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid

    anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the rights.

    These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if you

    distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it.

    For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether

    gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that

    you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the

    source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their

    rights………

    …..You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and

    you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee.

    ……..

    to make it a bit easier still for you (as we know you are also dutch):

    De GNU General Public License of kortweg de GPL is een copyleftlicentie voor software, bedacht door Richard M. Stallman, die (in het kort) stelt dat je met de software mag doen wat je wil (inclusief aanpassen en verkopen), mits je dat recht ook doorgeeft aan anderen en de auteur(s) van de software vermeldt. Concreet komt dat er op neer dat als je software die onder de GPL is gepubliceerd wilt verkopen, je daar de broncode bij zult moeten doen. Deze broncode mag dan weer verder worden verspreid onder de GPL. Iedereen kan ervoor kiezen zijn of haar programma onder de voorwaarden van deze licentie te publiceren.

    Avatar of Mariusooms
    Mariusooms
    Participant

    @mariusooms

    This could actually spark a interesting topic on the GPL Licensing. I would suggest annyone that wishes to engage in a particular argument based on the license, to read the following page:

    http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesFreeSoftwareMeanUsingTheGPL

    As far as material that is being received through wpmudev premium which is not under the GPL license should not be able to be sold for profit, afaik. Dutchmall does mention it resells both to the public for support of the site, which I agree is wrong, depending on the license off course.

    It does indeed mention that the fee is not for the theme or the product and that all materials are created by others, but how can you charge a fee for a theme or a plugin before downloading, while at the same time state it is not for the plugin or theme? No allegation, but surely confused.

    I could not find a clear ToS on wpmudev which clarifies this violation, so it is hard to say what exactly is allowed or not and what other licenses are distributed apart fomr the GPL.

    Considering the GPL it is actually astonishing not more plugins and themes from wpmudev premium are not readily available by others providers as that seems completely legal. I am not a member of wpmudev premium, so again, I don’t know what the ToS is or licensing beyond GPL.

    Avatar of Bowe
    Bowe
    Participant

    @bowromir

    Then I stand corrected and a mod can delete my post. If this is perfectly fine and accepted in the wordpress community then I am probably seeing this the wrong way..

    I personally would find it a bit strange to sell something which isn’t yours.

    For example if it took me many hours to create a BuddyPress theme or plugin and decided to sell it, and notice that someone else is selling my plugin for a lower price, I would be VERY unhappy!

    Right now everything that’s developed using any WP hooks automatically falls under the GPL so you are not doing anything wrong I think, but I honestly don’t understand why you would do this.. If everyone would start reselling stuff from others the open source community would quickly become a very nasty place to be. This is just my personal opinion and I’m interested in what others think about this.

    I am not trying to start a flamewar and I’m sorry for accusing you for stealing, that was uncalled for.

    Avatar of superbloggernl
    superbloggernl
    Participant

    @superbloggernl

    Bowe,

    no hard feelings. I also find the concept of GPL licenses tough to understand as I have seen some of my own work go the same route. However, I do believe one of the strong points of this type of licensing is that it actually helps get the word across.

    In our case we tend to provide dutch support for wpmu & bp. If wpmudev would be in dutch we wouldn’t even have offered it as obviously the guys at wmpu do a much better job than we do giving support, except …. they don’t speak dutch at wpmudev, and although it’s hard to believe, some of our fellow countrymen don’t speak english.

    We offer a service by translating, adapting, hosting and helping. This is costing us (lots of) time and money that we try to recover partly by charging a nominal fee, but guess what …..

    WPMU and buddypress now has yet another foothold and another outlet in a far away country with a foreign language. I guess the GPL license is all about getting the word out and that’s what we’re doing !

    p.s. Apart from the discussion above we are not oblivious to the ethical part of this story. If anyone can pose strong (well built) argument why we shouldn’t do what we do we have no problem seizing our services to reach out to a dutch audience. We are proud users of wpmu / bp and wouldn’t want to stand in the way of further development. Other than that … discussion closed and “zand erover”….

    Avatar of Xevo
    Xevo
    Participant

    @xevo

    “Any licensee who adheres to the terms and conditions is given permission to modify the work, as well as to copy and redistribute the work or any derivative version.”

    So if they are using GPL, you’ll be allowed to use their works in any way you want.

    I sent them a mail asking what license they use.

    Avatar of Bowe
    Bowe
    Participant

    @bowromir

    If I understand correctly it does not matter which licensing type they use because as soon as they use WP code it becomes GPL. At least that’s what a read here:

    http://www.prelovac.com/vladimir/interesting-wordpress-gpl-implications

    This means that whenever a theme or a plugin uses just one function from the WordPress code, GPL license automatically ‘kicks in’ and takes over. And since plugins and themes must use WordPress functions they automatically become GPL as well.

    Can someone confirm this is correct?

    Avatar of Xevo
    Xevo
    Participant

    @xevo

    @ Bowe: Normally this is correct, but wordpress makes an exception. Only if you want your theme/plugin in the plugin or theme repository over at wordpress.org, you have to have GPL on it. If you want to place your own copyright or copyleft on it, your allowed to do so. I can’t find a page on wordpress clarifying this in detail, since they don’t like you using any other license.

    I do have a statement on the forum that verifies this (second post).

    http://wordpress.org/support/topic/260431

    Btw, contacted the fellows over at wpmu-dev, they’re 100% GPL, so you could even freely give away their plugins/themes if you wanted to. But I don’t think they’d be giving updates anytime soon if their plugins/themes would be handed out for free.

    Avatar of superbloggernl
    superbloggernl
    Participant

    @superbloggernl

    update: couldn’t sleep at night :-) removed the whole caboodle and gave the domain to a friend. Dropped the WP dutch support on this (but we still support other wpmu / bp causes on our other dutch sites)

    conclusion: it’s perfectly legal but not ethical !

    Avatar of Bowe
    Bowe
    Participant

    @bowromir

    I think that has been a very wise decision! It’s a bit of a gray area but if you feel somewhat conflicted it’s always best to do whats feels right. Good luck with your other sites and once again sorry for the hard approach.

    ps: Thanks for explaining Xevo!

Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)

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