Wireframes collections 2
Seems we hit a post limit so I started a new thread.
Roger hit the nail on the head, we should not even think of a full page design but sections of template parts. The member-header.php member-content.php member-nav.php etc. Simplify these areas so they can be remixed.
A mobile/responsive first approach is a necessity.
LINK TO PREVIOUS THREAD: http://buddypress.org/community/groups/bp-default/forum/topic/wireframe-collections/
== we should not even think of a full page design ==
I already assumed that was understood since we’re talking about Theme Compatibility for BuddyPress just like it’s been done with bbPress. No header, footer, sidebar, just the title and the content, hence my request for BP shortcodes (like bbP) and template tags.
I have said this at least once already: BuddyPress will have shortcodes, yes, just like bbPress. 95% of the code is a copy-and-paste job.
@mercime the mockups suggest otherwise by being too content heavy. I’m just saying with the proposed grid structure including header footer sidebars it will be too much info on one page.
I’d like to underline what @modemlooper said – we need to think of the average user, not only our theme designers. I might be wrong here but I think the vast amount of BP sites out there uses whatever filter, sorting, navigation concept the default install provide – themes/layouts aside. Therefore, if we could put some extra care in designing those – by which I mean phrasing, wording, etc – I think not only the theme developers but the social community user will be happier. That’s why I’m here anyway.
Roger hit the nail on the head, we should not even think of a full page design but sections of template parts.
Roger did? that’s what I’ve been trying to get everyone to bear in mind on these threads and in the dev chats.
The next phase needs to be moving to discussing how the template parts may be built, there are a lot of possible scenarios and is a critical aspect.
As for shortcodes can we define those, we know what they are but how are they employed in the flow of the templating.
@rogercoathup my sledgehammer beat your toffee hammer
page pagination limit? we seem to only be allowed to paginate over four pages, so we could do with writing in txt speak
@Hugo… not only you – I have also been saying focus on components I have Mallets mallet.. does that count? I think we need to just agree all of us are on same page and lets get on with taking that into wireframes – which we do need to explore as whatever we do will need a basic structure.
Speaking of care of wording in components, I think Joshua Porter has some great things to say in his post about “microcopy“.
@modemlooper I’m used to brainstorming and allowing the creative and even outrageous ideas flow. Then go to the nitty-gritty of what’s practical and relevant later. We need more fun in our lives.
“Content-heavy” is relative It’s being user-centric and user/visitor-friendly. The member home page gives a simple itsy-bitsy overview of the member at a glance thereby saving many visitors from “just too many clicks” on various component tabs on desktop or smartphone and sometimes landing on a component where the member has no entry (wasted click).
With BP theme compat shortcodes, BP plugin shortcodes, and some columnar shortcodes of your own, you can set up a responsive grid with chosen shortcodes inside each column within Pages > Add New and come up with one of my wireframes in member’s home page. Same goes for BP theme compat template tags directly on template files. Just keeping things simple, lol.
For those that couldn’t attend of want summary I did one here: http://bpdevel.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/developer-chat-ui-update/
I have also created groups for each of the areas (and a catch all) – so if we can aim discussion there that would be great.
I’ve read most of these 2 posts and I didn’t come across any discussion about ads. Ad placement should be a major consideration. There are many ways other than ads to monetize a site, but it is of course the most popular. This is one of my biggest complaints about BP and WP themes. The vast majority of them are for hobbyist that will only realize too late that early design decisions will have long term ripple effects on what they do.
That type of consideration is irrelevant. Template parts are about the content in the page, not the sidebar or header or footer or ad spaces. That’s all dealt with in the WordPress theme, just like it is today.
They are completely relevant as long as BP is theme dependent. Page content is directly related to this.
At one point in this discussion css was said to be off topic. Now you are say layout is off topic. Just what is this topic about?
Let me be a bit clearer. I’m not talking about mixing ad blocks into content. What I’m talking about is how content effects things like sidebar placement etc. The current Default theme has a very narrow sidebar, this limit ads sizes. Yes you can mod it, but the goal should be designing a default theme that works without mods. It’s my personal belief it should never be less than 250px (300px is preferred).
The wire frames I’ve seen here contain sidebars and/or vertical navigation. This will limit what you can do even in custom themes without a ton of coding mods. Even if you convert BP to short codes that can be used with any theme, they way it is displayed will have ripple effects. The content blocks should be kept as narrow as possible. It’s much easier to mod them wider than it is to try and keep them from looking crowded.
No they are not.
Let us re-iterate for the umpteenth time what the thread and whole point of 1.7 is:
Templating! Finally, at last, we have – thanks to jjj – a means of breaking BP’s reliance on a dedicated theme or set of template files. When 1.7 drops BP will be theme independent, it will not rely on having a default theme but will have the ability to render it’s ‘content screens’ in the standard WP template files via a series of template files with essentially just a series of template functions – however, and this is the point of this process of wireframing – if you simply activated BP and navigated to activity stream how is that content going to be rendered in the default page.php WP template file? BP is not simple content but has a number of objects it needs to render such as nav elements and the content in general is far more detailed and complex than a simple post, so what has to be done is a modicum of styles and a notion of the markup required have to be conceived in order for the activity stream to display with some semblance of sanity and clarity.
The wireframes attempt to describe how that may best be achieved – but they are NOT layouts per se or put in better terms they are NOT a theme, it is, though, easy for this to get confused and to some extent that has been happening.
So to your contention that ads space is vital , that is your decision – the whole point of this exercise is to finally give developers the means to truly create custom themes, you would simply do something like overload the page.php use by adding page-activity.php or content-activity.php – or something along the lines WP does things for template hierarchy – to your theme, in that you would then build the page as you needed it for example adding a new sidebar region where you could add widgets for ads.
You can’t see the forest through the trees. I know what you are doing here. While you may not be designing a theme these choices will have a direct effect on themes Read my replies here:
I can see the forest very clearly and I am not involved in this process of wireframing I only have an interest in the templating aspect when we get to it and how we manage the various files and template parts functions etc ensuring that the building blocks are suitable for true un-restricted site building,
However one looks at things you do have to look at the most basic usage of activating BP and doing nothing else, in that scenario BP has to be basically styles to work to some theme likely WP current default, although part of the skill is setting a set of default styles that work well with a variety of layout types
Once again you can find my replies here:
I’ve read them mate.
get involved – as you appear to be doing – express your views (I’m not in utter disagreement with them) state them eloquently, passionately, and decisively, add a wireframe or two to back up what you’re saying if necessary; help the process along.
Let me say the work done here at BP is amazing. Everyone should be thanked. I have strong opinions on things, but that doesn’t mean to say they are all correct. I just want to make this amazing code the best it can be.
Next week we will be releasing a redesign we have been working on for over a year. Once it is live hopefully I can use it as an example of our ideas about how BP can be used. Maybe even create some tutorials. I am more of a designer than a coder, so much of what I can offer will be in that regard, but I am learning more everyday.
You are prolly thinking this way because of pre 1.7 BP-default as being a rigid theme. 1.7 is Legos. Yes there will be a OOTB look/layout whatever you wish to call it. There has to be or people with say “what is this crap?”. If you currently have a WP theme that has an ad block above page content and then you activate BuddyPress 1.7 then the ad block will be above the BP content. 1.7 will open up much more space for customization.
BuddyPress has many hooks for ad placement but that should be theme/plugin territory and not core.
I should not have mentioned ads. I should have discussed sidebar width(s). That is more to the point.
I know what you are trying to do with 1.7, but my point is more about Tetris than Legos, but the same concept. While 1.7 wont be a theme or contain sidebars etc, it will inject content. How that content is displayed will have an effect on what it is displayed in. Thus it should allow for the most flexibility. Using things like vertical navigation on BP elements limits this. Another thing I’ve seen in some of the examples here (thanks to those that took the time to create them) is long rows of horizontal content such as message titles, activity title blocks etc. Avatar placement is also a issue because it cuts into content width (like in this forum). I believe avatars should in in the title field and not as a bullet point off in the left margin.
A lot of services use the avatar as a bullet anchor to that piece of content. Horizontal nav has been an issue because lots of plugins add tabs. Vertical nav is def the way to go. Though this is just the OOTB structure. You will be able to change anything you want. You are reacting like you are going to be stuck with what ever is decided. This is not the case. Trust me when I say that when 1.7 comes out WP theme devs are going to fall in love withing being able to add their own templates/styles. Expect major options in both design and layout.
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