Its difficult to predict. We’re creating a lot of new technology here, so we can’s just say “well we’ve done this X times before so we know it will take 2 weeks to do, etc, etc”. My best guess is we’ll have an alpha version out in a month or two. You can see an automatically estimated release date by visiting our project tracker here:
Is there any way you guys could just release a basic update of the current stable version, but with the multiple albums feature and photo pools feature?
It seems like you guys keep adding more and more and more features that you want to include in the update and it will never be finished because there will always be more you want to add.
Hey Guys — I agree with alanchrishuges, I have been keeping tabs on v.0.1.9 since December and it does appear that this is a classic case of “feature creep” taking over.
I am not an engineer so unfortunately I am unable to jump in and lend a hand, but I have been around a lot of software and web product development in my days and have learned that “Defining Scope” and sticking to it has a ton of value in the development process.
The *process* is valuable because if forces you to address potential conflicts and rough spots in the product while the whole thing is still hypothetical. Identifying what can be tackled now in a particular version and what will have to wait until v.2.
Defining scope is valuable because it gives the entire team a reference point for all the work to be done throughout the project and a common language for talking about the work. Defining your requirements drives ambiguity out of the development process.
I have seen many web applications in development that seemed to be in a state of perpetual beta: almost, but not quite ready for to roll out to actual users. The big stumbling block was an unwillingness to document requirements. It is a lot of hassle to write everything down but it makes the difference between launching a set of features the everyone gets start to work with or never launching any.
What this looks like from the inside of an organization is an ever-changing mishmash of features in various stages of completeness. Every new article somebody reads or new thought that comes along while someone is playing with the product inspires another feature that gets considered. This results in a constant flow of work, but with no schedule, no milestones, and no end in sight, and since no one knows the scope of the project, how can anyone know when the product is done.
There are two main reasons to go to the trouble of documenting requirements
Reason #1: So You Know What You’re Building
If you write down a description of exactly what you’re setting out to build, everyone will know what the project’s goals are and when they’ve been reached. It becomes something that is concrete that everyone at every level of the organization from top to bottom can work with. Having a defined set of requirements allows you to parcel out responsibility for the work more efficiently. Seeing the entire scope mapped out enables you to see connections between individual requirements that might not otherwise be apparent.
Reason #2: So You Know What You’re Not Building
Lots of features sound like good ideas, but they don’t necessarily align with the strategic objectives of the project. Additionally, all sorts of possibilities for features will emerge after the project is well underway. Having documented requirements provides you with a framework for evaluating those ideas as they come along.
Knowing what you’re *not building* also means knowing what you’re not building *right now*. The real value in collecting all those great ideas comes from finding appropriate ways to fit them into your long-term plans. By establishing concrete sets of development requirements and stockpiling any requests that don’t fit those requirements as possibilities for future releases, you can manage the entire process in a more deliberate and conscious way. And if you don’t consciously manage your requirements, you will get caught in the dreaded “feature creep”
I commend you all on the work that you’re doing, I am very excited to be able to get my hands on a copy of what your building. I don’t know about everyone else, but I am willing to take a smaller feature set sooner than have to wait for it *all* to be complete.
Kindly and thanks!
I agree completely with @albin … couldn’t of said it better myself. I’d love a smaller version of the new product now, rather that keep waiting for all the new things that keep getting played with. In all the years I’ve been working with WordPress, I’ve never really known a plugin to “develop” like this.
If apple did that, we’d have a new iphone every decade. I’ve been putting off a site launch just because I need a plugin like this, but the limitations of the current version don’t cut it for me, and there aren’t any alternatives.
im going to be blunt.
what the F*ck is taking SOOOOOOOO LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the slowest development of any other plugin!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can tell you precisely why this project is taking a long time to complete: because it’s a big project, and because it has interdependent features. Think of it like a car: we could release the engine, seats, and wheels, but without a transmission it’s not going to drive anywhere fast. And if you push it down a hill, lacking brakes and a steering wheel, you’re going to be in for a rough ride.
So if you know how to code in PHP, get in touch with us (my email address is on my profile) and we’ll get you started building-out parts of the plugin.
Right now you guys got a stable release of a car body, I was just suggesting you release some seats and maybe a radio for us while we wait…
Actually when I first saw the planned feature list of 0.1.9, I said to myself, wow, this is really a big release, so big a release and so many new features that it should rather be called 0.2 or even 0.3.
I totally understand what @foxly has said that the development you are undergoing is not the kind that has been done many times before and so you really cannot make a more or less precise estimate of the final release date. And I understand you guys are working hard as I remember @foxly has once said he put 10 hours a day into this project, and actually you are not obliged to release it asap because you don’t charge for this plugin.
But what @albin and others have mentioned is also quite reasonable. As I have just said, the feature list of the next release is really a “surprise!” Based on experience using other wp/bp plugins, I would expect something like, the next release to say “we now support multi-albums”, and then next “we now support integration with flickr” and then next ” now integration with facebook also supported”. Step by step, small steps leading to a great leap.
In this way, we can have a stable process and a sustainable confidence in the plugin, rather than eagerly waiting just to hear that the estimated release date delayed again and again, months, half a year.
I was originally designing my site based on the estimate that the multi-album function will be available quite soon, since the solo album is really not enough and can lead to mess as more and more photos uploaded.
But as time passes, I just decide that although this is a great component and it can help to improve my site a great lot, I cannot build my site based on something whose final coming out is uncertain.
I like bp-album because to my opinion, among all the album plugins in bp community , this is with the most accordance with the idea and design that is behind bp/wp. It’s simple, neat, yet (will be) powerful. And I really hope that as @foxly said there might be an alpha version out in a month or two, this time the release will not be delayed again and we would see the final version of the BIG release coming out by the end of June.
To answer the top questions:
1) I am paid full-time to work on BP-Media, and average about 70 hours a week on coding, research, and team management. It’s going to get done.
2) You can’t do incremental feature releases (group albums, Flickr connectivity, etc) until you’ve finished the core main API.
3) We’re about 75% done our core API, eta: end of April.
4) At that point you’ll have multiple albums, album types, content types, classes of users…. you’ll see.
5) Then we have to build a hugely complicated importer class that upgrades a 0.1.8x install to a 0.1.9x install.
I believe on this projet even couldnt wait and using buddypress gallery
Like, seriously! …check out my time tracker from last month:
Well if you are working 70 hours a week, than why isn’t it done. Even a squirrel would know if you “say” your working 70 hours a week, you must be slaking, or taking alot of breaks because if are working on it 70 hours a week for 6 months you could of rebuild the great pyramids.
Wow …have you ever considered working as a “Personal Trainer” or “Drill Sargent” …you might be a good fit for the job.
Seriously though, BP-Media is a major endeavor: if you printed off all of the project’s source code, it would be longer than all seven editions of the “Harry Potter” series combined. On top of this, we’re doing a lot of research and a lot of experimentation to solve problems and build things that *nobody else has done before* …for some features, we’ve had to build and discard several prototypes before we found a good solution.
With regards to the Pyramids: It took 15-20 years and 200,000 (paid) skilled workers to build the Great Pyramid of Giza: see Wikipedia
With resources like that, I could re-invent the Internet and change the world for the better.
Wow, if the project’s source code is this big, I am fearing that this plugin might get too bloated and therefore unusable. I just hope that this is not the case. Will it be possible to turn of features which we don’t need (e.g. twitter, facebook, flickr, oEmbed, mp3)
Speaking of features… will there be CDN support available?
HA, what features! You promise so much stuff that never happens, and how much can it take to build a couple more features of an album plugin? This plugin is very, very small, it’s not like it’s even complex at all.
When you release the next “big” version of bp album in the year 3040 it will probably not have 70% of the features you promise it’s going to have.
Just demanding something for free and then being rude if you don’t get it fast enough is just not the right way. You should know that foxly does not need to release any code if he chooses to keep the plugin for the company he is working for.
Admins who want a working gallery could purchase one from brajesh (http://buddydev.com/plugins/bp-gallery/).
Clearly some members do not appreciate something when it is free.
I struggle to understand when BP-Media is released/updated to it’s awesome features, why it doesn’t become a paid plugin or even a component of BuddyPress.
The features and innovation that BP-Media is bringing to BuddyPress is incredible, I just hope that they continue with development and try and give rough ‘guesstimations’ for those waiting patiently.
Look, guys, it’s finished and stable when you see the upgrade notice to 0.1.9 in your backends. foxly gets paid to work on this, so he’s probably gonna implement the features his client wants. That’d also mean that he’s on the clients schedule, who might not need or want a version with less features. If you check out the SVN trunk version regularly you’ll notice that the plugin is getting worked on.
Bottom line, wait for it or go for another solution. Complaining or being rude about it won’t get things done any faster.
foxly is lucky that he’s getting paid to do this. Other developers aren’t that lucky and have to work a lot more than 10 hours a day, especially if they’re working on personal projects as well (as most of us do…).
@ekine You will be able to turn off features that you do not want, and yes we are adding support for CDN
Will there be a new 0.1.9 nightly build to test, any time soon?
@ekine Not Sure about that, were are still working on BP-Media’s very core classes and functions, so until thats pretty much complete there is no point releasing a new build for people to test.
“we’re doing a lot of research and a lot of experimentation to solve problems and build things that *nobody else has done before* “
That sounds awesome. I completely understand why creating a revolutionary plugin would take quite a bit of time. That is why I suggested (and few others suggested) just putting out a mediocre update in the mean time with some of the basic features people have been waiting on. Specifically just the multiple albums feature. Maybe photo pools also if possible.
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