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scalablity of buddypress

  • @thatmtnman

    Participant

    Dear Forum,

    Does anyone happen to know how scalable buddypress is? Is buddypress suitable for really large projects?

    cheers!

Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • @shanebp

    Moderator

    What do you consider ‘really large’ ?

    It is scalable.
    A lot depends on your ability as a sysadmin.

    @henrywright

    Moderator

    @thatmtnman it’s getting better – lots of performance improvements are in-progress and many are planned. See some of the recently active Trac tickets for examples:

    https://buddypress.trac.wordpress.org/

    @thatmtnman

    Participant

    thanks guys. I understood that buddypress was working on splitting queries etc but wondered how it handled concurrancy issues in its present state and how the proposed query changes were expected to improve the situation.

    The question was asked ‘how big a scale?’. Our project is not spec’d out that way yet (it will be), but I’m exploring possible solutions, but I’d say in the 100k concurrent user order of magnitude. We would expect a large number of groups and within those groups very large numbers say in the 6 figure order of magnitude.

    cheers

    @shanebp

    Moderator

    >100k concurrent user order
    That will be more about the setup & tuning of your servers.
    BP does a lot of caching and there are plugins like w3totalcache that help alot.
    But you can’t cache BP pages without serving stale content.

    >a large number of groups
    A large number of members in a single group won’t be as much of an issue as a large number of groups. If you have hundreds of groups, just listing them can be a real bottleneck.

    @buddyboss

    Participant

    If you have over 100,000 users you’ll need a very good server setup. Lots of RAM and ideally an SSD as BuddyPress writes to the server a lot. You can’t just cache BP pages for logged in users as they will see old content, so you need to be able to handle a lot of database queries all at once. Also set up a CDN and put all assets (images, CSS, JS, etc) there to reduce the load on your server. And minify them all too.

    I suspect you’ll need to set up some custom caching for certain parts of the site so they don’t bog down, particularly search. If you do a search of 100,000+ users, especially a search with multiple terms, it will take a while to run through all of those database entries. You can set up a cached index of all search results and just update it at intervals with a cron job, and then your search results will be much faster. Same with group search if necessary. This would have to be custom. What I’m describing is exactly how we set up search here: http://easyoutsource.com/workers. It will search through over 25,000 users with multiple parameters pretty fast. Prior to caching search results it was almost too slow to use.

    @thatmtnman

    Participant

    sounds like a lot of servers-and a lot of ram. Is concurrent users and speed a priority for the buddypress teams I wonder?

    @buddyboss

    Participant

    Sorry I didn’t explain this as well as I could have. You shouldn’t need a lot of servers, just one very good server. So if you’re using cheap shared hosting at $5-10/mo, that’s not going to cut it once your site scales up large. In that scenario you’re sharing bandwidth and resources with many other sites, and the server itself (which is just a computer really) is likely not all that fast if you’re not paying much. You can rent your own server, or a virtual private server, and it can have very high specs all dedicated to your site. Like 24 cores, 2-4gb RAM, etc. That will be fast. You can get that for $50-$100/mo depending on what you choose/need. And you can always migrate a site from one server setup to another. A developer experienced in moving sites can usually do this within a day.

    A HUGE site does need multiple servers. Facebook for example probably has thousands of servers all around the world. But keep in mind how much raw data they must serve. A BP site at 100,000 users can probably be delivered from one database, from one server. The guiding strategy is to take as much load off of that server as possible, and then make sure the server is good enough to handle what is left without crashing or stalling with not enough RAM. “caching” at the server level is a method to take load off of the server. Using a CDN takes load off of the server. etc.

    I’m sure speed is an issue that the BP team thinks a lot about, but it’s a hard one to tackle as people are all customizing everything and it’s not really best practice to include caching within plugins. Although best practice isn’t everything, because in reality a solid caching system for BP would solve a lot of speed issues. It would need to cache individual components and break them live with AJAX, or something like that – not my expertise. I can imagine this interfering with many custom setups and plugins however, so like I said, probably not a simple fix.

    @thatmtnman

    Participant

    thank you buddyboss! How much ram do you feel would be adequate.

    I guess the other thing is, a CDN is going to be acting like a cache, and so, since a buddypress site can’t use cache any way (or it serves stale content) things like W3 etc should not be part of the install?

    cheers

    @buddyboss

    Participant

    1GB RAM is a minimum, 2GB RAM is ideal. As you scale up you may need more. On a good server setup you can actually see live (via SSH) how much of your RAM is being used up and how much is free. If you’re bottlenecking, you can contact the hosting company to add more RAM or bump you up to the next server. That is not the same as migrating to a new host… if it’s within the same company they should handle it for you seamlessly in the background.

    Another option is to use Amazon (AWS) instead of a private server and it just scales up automatically as needed – they mostly charge by data rather than by server. They will be more expensive for most sites and will be slightly harder to set up, but they are also incredibly scalable.

    A CDN isn’t really a “cache” in the way you imagine W3 working. It’s only caching resources (stylesheets, images, javascript files, etc) but not caching “content”. Your resources usually don’t go stale because they are not updated often. And if you do it properly, the cache can be broken any time you update a resource (by adding a version number to the enqueue in your theme). The version number gets appended to the URL of the resource, so if it changes the CDN thinks it’s a different file and immediately serves up a new file.

    Content does go stale. By content I mean the data that is outputting for everyone to see right on the website. Like a profile, activity page, member directory, etc. This is the stuff that plugins like W3 are primarily used to cache (among other things as well).

    You can integrate a CDN very easily using WP Super Cache. You can just turn off the content caching stuff and use it only for pushing your resources into a CDN. It’s a set it and forget it kind of setup for the most part.

    If you happen to be in the Miami area on May 9, I’ll be speaking about scaling BuddyPress at the BuddyCamp (1st day of WordCamp Miami). http://2014.miami.wordcamp.org/
    Should be a fun event.

    @thatmtnman

    Participant

    Dear Mr. Buddyboss…

    Once again, thank you so much for the informative and specific reply. Two gigs of ram it shall be!

    I wish I could attend your lecture…I really do. I’ve not been to a WordPress/Buddypress anything yet, and I am dying to go. Absolutely dying. I want to get far more involved with the WordPress/Buddypress company/community. We are both students (married, older etc) and are living on student loans…so for now, travel for us is limited to the bus 🙁

    I have another question unrelated to capacity-should I start another thread, or may I ask it here?

    cheers!

    @buddyboss

    Participant

    Happy to help.

    WordCamps are fun. I went to my first one in Chicago and met a lot of great people and learned quite a bit. I recommend going if one ever comes up near where you live.

    For capacity, start another thread. You can @ mention me if you want. Btw I’m not a forum moderator so I’m not really an authority haha. But best to always start a new thread for a new topic.

Viewing 11 replies - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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