Photo Albums…. omfg!!
There are already so many WordPress plugins available. Why not start with adapting and extending those, instead of reinventing the wheel within BP.
Please core developers, concentrate on the core! Make sure it’s clean, solid and secure. Concentrate on APIs that make it easier for third parties to hook into BP.
Photo albums may be core to some, but not for everybody. I can think of dozens of other applications that could be core to someone; event management, mailing lists, groupware, file sharing, paid membership levels, video galleries, group video editing, chat rooms, video conferencing, shopping cart, credit card payment bridge, mobile apps, geolocation … etc.
I fully agree with the sentiments expressed above concerning the hard work devs put into their code, and their legitimate desire to offset their investment by charging a small fee for their products. I have no qualms whatsoever about paying a fee when it comes to something I want.
Think about it: when you go to the corner store to buy milk, do you complain that it’s not free? Do you honestly believe that because milk is supposed to be good for your bones that it should be free? If not, why insist that anything else you seem to hold dear (yet which is clearly provided by another) be given to you on demand?
Use and manipulation of GPL code may be free for all, but the blood, sweat and tears of others’ work surely is not.
had to add my 2 cents..
photo albums are an integral part of most social networks – they were also a promised part of buddypress when it was announced, and given the features that were supposed to be available by 2009 is the reason we have spent so much time working with and testing BP.
While I think it is fine for people to develop and charge for premium plugins, I have found with several projects that a nightmare occurs when core code is updated and plugins are broken – many of the premium plugins developers do not update. Anyone who purchases premium plugins needs to be aware that they may not work in the future, this has hurt other projects in a big way. I vote that buddypress gets photo albums in the core, and as soon as possible.
[blockquote]”dozens of other applications that could be core to someone; event management, mailing lists, groupware, file sharing, paid membership levels, video galleries, group video editing, chat rooms, video conferencing, shopping cart, credit card payment bridge, mobile apps, geolocation”[/blockquote]
– I agree that many of these features are core to a social network in 2010 – If I was Automattic, I would have a developer on salary that worked full time to make sure plugins for these things did not break with future core updates – it’s essential for a stable future of social software in my humble opinion, this is one of the issues that crippled phpfox years ago.
Without some of these things that some people consider “extras” – buddypress is nothing more than a web 1.0 app that some geeks may enjoy, but essentially does nothing more than phpbb or phpnuke did years ago. Boonex’s Dolphin has photo albums, privacy, chat, and all of that – all core – and it still leaves room for premium plugin developers to create fancier flash gallery plugins, and others.
@john James Jacoby – I like your idea of charging for answered questions – that would make things better for those who answer and those who ask – very similar to a group-financing of plugins that get core support I had a couple years back.
Simple plugins that leverage established, mature gallery apps would prevent much of those upgrade dilemmas. Let Zenphoto and NextGen handle upload, compression, database storage, gallery creation, etc. The BP plugins then only have to provide ways to display images stored by those apps within the BP context.
That is the open source approach. What Djsteve suggests is the proprietary commercial software approach. Nothing wrong with that, but Boonex and SocialEngine are already doing that. If that’s what you want, expect to pay.
Personally I chose WP/BP because I want to be able to mix and mash scripts. Built-in forums, galleries, event management, etc. only make that harder.
The issues with the existing plugins for ZenPhoto and NextGen are that they are designed for a single user blog and content.
When users are split into the different sections many of which do not have blogs it creates serious issues. I looked into those, and even stripped them down a bit.
I think WP 2.9 is on the path to galleries, although not active. It has editing, uploading, management(although wrong) and many other features that would be easier to get working then to hack around a outside solution.
Photos should be core, Events as well. If you want to develop these as “core plugins” that users have to activate like the repos in Linux thats fine, but they still need to be there and accessible.
@ Peterverkooijen: “Simple plugins that leverage established, mature gallery apps would prevent much of those upgrade dilemmas. Let Zenphoto and NextGen handle upload, compression, database storage, gallery creation, etc. The BP plugins then only have to provide ways to display images stored by those apps within the BP context.”
I completely agree. NextGen gallery is already an extremely advanced and mature gallery plugin. It seems to me that writing something new from scratch would both be a lot of work and never approach the functionality of a dedicated gallery plugin. If we could somehow use NextGen with BP in a way that is consistent within the BP context that would be great.
Don’t forget, folks, that while NextGen and Zen are awesome..like Dennis said, they are for single user galleries. The phrase “BP plugins then only have to provide ways to display images stored by those apps within the BP context” is not a trivial one, however lightly it is thrown around. Pictures not only be stored and accessed in a scalable manner, but relationships to users need to be maintained, in a ddition to Groups and possibly even events. Then each image must maintain an associated comment/activity stream set of functionality. Finally, in order to be truly useful in a social media context, the ability to “tag” a user in an image will be very important.
Just because @peterverkooijen says he doesn’t need it doesn’t mean it can’t be argued that it shouldn’t be a core element.
… but relationships to users need to be maintained, in a ddition to Groups and possibly even events. Then each image must maintain an associated comment/activity stream set of functionality. Finally, in order to be truly useful in a social media context, the ability to “tag” a user in an image will be very important.
That’s all metadata with image files, it has nothing to do with uploading photos, generating thumbnails, etc. I’m not saying writing a plugin to make those connections is easy, but it would be easier than writing an entire gallery/photo app from scratch.
I’ve tested several gallery scripts. I needed something that could handle upload of raw photos. NextGen came close, but still had some problems. If Buddypress tries to build an entire app into the core, it’s never going to be as solid as NextGen or Zenphoto or other established gallery apps.
Obviously Nextgen and Zenphoto are for single user galleries. That doesn’t make them any less suitable as starting points for a BP plugin. There has been some discussion about Nextgen on the WPMU forums.
I don’t agree with what you’re saying. I understand the logic behind your ideas, but I think that it’s much better to create a gallery component from the ground up created for buddypress only.
If you have someone working on it which is 110% familiar with BuddyPress and knows exactly which core components and 3rd party plugins might have use for photo galleries, you have a much stronger and cleaner end results then using an existing solution.
You’ve mentioned keeping BuddyPress clean and “non-bloated” for several times, and I think that adjusting/hacking/modifying/adepting existing scripts to work with buddypress (which means a high chance of code conflicts, unused code and a clunky user experience) is not something that I would choose above a well written BP only component.
Would Facebook use an existing photoalbum script? It might sound like a very stupid comparison but I think BP aims to become a open source solution which stands completely on it’s own and can be compared with the bigger social network sites (atleast I hope that’s what they are aiming for:) A awesome BP Gallery component is very much needed and something which should not be (code)based on any existing plugin/script out there.
My 2 cents
OK, since folks are tossing around pennies, I throw 2 of mine in.
I don’t care. That’s right. I don’t care. I just want something that works, will grow over time and is not so slow that I have to upgrade hardware to use it.
If someone wants to hack away at NextGen, great. If someone wants to take on a full script, that’s great too. What I would suggest is we think seriously about scalability. Once random users get to upload media (presumably video at some point), we need scalability. Before the decision to put BP on WP (non-MU), there was much gnashing of teeth about performance. Adding photos/videos stored locally will only make it worse.
One of my main competitors runs on Ning. Users upload photos and videos with no limit. To even approach this I need AWS or some other cloud solution. As Ning people look at BP, that will be a consideration. The DB structure issues seem real and need to be addressed whichever direction is taken.
Mentally, I separate upload, storage, linking, search and display of media. Maybe existing solutions are best for display, but searching, linking and storage in the BP context seems to need some custom work.
Just like to say that I very much appreciate Mark’s remark about roadmap updating to inform developers about core-team plans.
Even if you’re not working on complicated and time consuming feature/plugin etc. but running any BP site you’re always dealing with the community of your users. They may also demand some features or functionaly and it’s a good thing to know what you can expect from core-team and when before you run into hacking
“What I would suggest is we think seriously about scalability. Once random users get to upload media (presumably video at some point), we need scalability.”
already done. In both WP & MU, you can define an alternate uploads folder for everything, and this including using a completely different site.
Good to know. I’ll begin my homework on how to do this. Seems the indexing/db piece in the BP context remains a real concern.
As per a recent dev chat:
People really loved the feature poll which was on the site back in the heady days of BuddyPress 1.0. We are going to create a new sub-forum where anyone can post any ideas or features into the hat that theyâ€™d like to see in future BuddyPress versions. A future dev chat will then go through the ideas, make a selection, then put those into a poll on the site for people to vote on. This will decide what happens to BuddyPress in 1.3 and beyond.
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