Forum Replies Created
No I’m done here. So you can stop trolling my posts.
The fact the post below was locked tells me everything I need to know about the development staff here.
Good night and good luck,
I never asked for others to do it. I only asked for the tools to allow myself and others to contribute to it.
I’m not saying it should be part of the codex. I only mentioned the codex because we all know it’s out of date and I understand why it is. Developers only have 24 hours in a day. What I suggested should be in a separate area. and maybe its not the best idea. I only wanted to start the conversation. The goal was two fold; one to reach out to new users and two reduce the amount of time it takes to reply to them.
When I setup this system for Amazon customer service we called them blurbs. Basically a standard reply to FAQ. That is what I’m talking about.
I do. We have 2 million visitors a month and another 10 million on Facebook. It’s just not BP related.
So anyone that disagrees with something is complaining and anyone that agrees is contributing? I don’t understand that logic?
I have posted many code examples our ours and others.
@shawn38 Thanks for proving my point.
This is not for me. Not only am I a expert at what I do, I have a team of them at my disposal. We have done things with BP that some said was impossible. I have also built marking programs for some of the largest internet companies in the world. If you would like to compare resumes I would be happy to oblige. I figured if we are going to use this code we should be involved, perhaps that was a mistake.
Just look at the replies I get for the suggestion that BP should be more open to inexperienced users…
@shawn38 I’m sorry you believe nurturing inexperienced users is babysitting and don’t believe BP is capable or organizing content. You are correct when you say you are under no obligation. So why are you apposed to it if you are under no obligation to participate?
@modemlooper I can respect that. Forums are a poor medium for debate. Often people read into things that may not be correct due to the lack of inflection in print. I myself must admit that my direct way of speaking may be off putting to some. But if I didn’t care I wouldn’t be writing this.
Yes, of course members can and should create their own sites if they feel they can give back. But, that’s not my point. My effort here is to provide suggestions on how BP itself should be marketing its product. BP should not rely on outside sites to do it for them. I believe the marketing of BP is as important as the code to its future success.
@modemlooper I don’t understand your hostility.
First this has nothing to do with the wire-frame topics. I think I’ve said that 3 times now. But because you brought it up…. I didn’t attack anyone. I stated why the designs where flawed. Gave my own opinions why they where, provided links to outside opinions on why they where flawed, offered alternative ideas, provided links to other ideas, posted pictures of examples we have built, etc. Is that your idea of being negative? I have no problem with any of them being “vetoed.” My only issues was that the impression was given that they where vetoed prior to asking for feedback so that effort was wasted.
Now back on topic. I’m not asking for others to do the marketing work I described. But the simple truth is I don’t have the keys to the site. Where can tutorials be submitted to the Blog? Is the blog willing to change how it is currently being used? Where do users submit sites to be included in the showcase? Are you looking for sites to be submitted? etc etc. Those are things only the developers can control. Empower your users and you maybe surprised at what they can contribute.
Here is my point again, before things get too sour. This isn’t an indictment of anyone. This is about the problems with open source communities and hopefully how to avoid them.
BP lacks a marketing vision. This is typical when there is not central ownership.
There are basic steps that can be taking to improve this. You should bring in outside writers to the Blog to create tutorials, tips, tricks, highlights etc. not just a place for press releases., The showcase should be updated and expanded like other showcase sites. The theme showcase should be incorporated into it instead of a separate area (especially after 1.7). I could go one but by far the most important thing is to embrace it’s users. People that may have never written a line of code in their life should be embraced not cast aside or ignored. They should be nurtured and supported. That’s how you build long term strength and loyalty.
@chouf1 It wasn’t victimization or moral harassment. It was a response to being called a d–k.
This isn’t about me. I can afford to hire developers, etc. I have been working with BP since it was in beta. I have answered questions here. I have contributed where I can etc etc.
I am calm.
I went out of my way to write this post in a productive way. It just seems I was talking on a completely different level. This isn’t about mods, locked posts or any of that other stuff. It was about the BIG PICTURE.
This was an honest attempt to discuss important issues in a productive way. The hostility expressed just underlines my point.
@karmatosed You are replying more about what you think my motivations are for writing this and not the larger points I was trying to make. I can be like a bull in a china shop at times. I realize that, but this isn’t about wire frames or even my posts or replies to them, which for the most part have been positive. This is about what I and others have been seeing as a whole beyond that. This is about the marketing of BP, which starts on this site.
@djpaul Off topic? This is 100% on topic.
I was only quoting what she wrote. She wrote things have already been vetoed and are not up for discussion. If you have a problem with that take it up with her because she was the one that wrote it not me.
Don’t worry I won’t comment anymore. Clearly it’s not welcome.
@hnla I didn’t suggest it, she did….
“ @karmatosed : Things like you are suggesting are far more theme than UI. I could see it being done as a released theme or being done as a custom theme. Just seems over kill for a default UI. I could be wrong but didn’t you bring that up before @ubernaut and it was vetoed?”
I don’t have a problem if the developers want to make these decisions on their own. That’s fair, they put in the hours to get it this far. What upsets me is wasting our time asking for feedback on things that are set in stone.
Who is vetoing stuff? What is the point of these topics if it has already been decided. I don’t think any of these “wireframes” have been thought through. I don’t think it matters what anyone says here, this is just an exercise in fishing for people that already agree with what has already been decided.
@shawn38 Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying that people are not paying it forward. Quite the opposite. The point of this was to suggest ways to help developers save time when replying.
The part about these forums being “mainly” for developers wasn’t implying anything, it was just stating a fact. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. My only point was to have a place to direct them to for FAQ that may not be BP related.
@shawn38 I was talking about the forums are mostly for developers. If BP wants to be used by everyone, this site should at least try and to be patient with them. One of the biggest things lacking with the BP project is a little salesmanship. If you can help someone what does it matter if it is “beyond the scope of the default package?”
For what it’s worth, we use Rackspace. Expensive but top of the line (or one of the tops).
Of course they can and should be Googling that stuff, but we both know that is rarely the issue. The goal isn’t to educate the masses. The goal is to reduce the time it takes to answer those people by just posting a link.
For example. Someone recently asked how to change the color of the buttons. Yes they need to know how to adjust BP css, but they also need to know how to use tools like Firebug etc. Perhaps some feel the second part is beyond the scope of these forums (and I tend to agree), but the goal is to reduce the time it takes to reply to each. By providing them with links to non-BP tutorials it would reduce the amount of follow up questions.
As BP is made easier to develop you will be getting a lot more questions by people that don’t even know what css stands for. You have one of two choices, either try and help the helpless or turn them away frustrated by their ignorance.
You are going to have to deal with these issues as BP turns from being a a plugin mostly for developers into more of a consumer assessable plugin.